I said no, I am pro-choice, pro-freedom, anti unsafe vaccines, anti (against) human experimentation (no long-term studies have ever been done on vaccines and no studies have ever been done on multiple vaccines given at the same time, so if you get vaccinated, you are being experimented on). Then a few people and I went back and forth about research. I told one of them to Google VAERS and CDC to see that vaccines kill more people than the diseases they are supposed to prevent. He replied:
"Nope. Don’t tell me to google or go someplace to research. You made the claim, show me the evidence. The burden is on he who makes the claim. You can’t rest on a generic tome about critical thinking hoping that inference that I don’t employ it sticks. It doesn’t. Where’s your evidence that vaccines kill more people that they prevent getting diseases?"
Since it is your health that you should be concerned with, it should be up to you to do all you can to keep your health, and that would include doing your own research, much as I have done. If you don't want to, that's okay with me, but don't expect me to do it for you.
He found VAERS as well as the CDC's disclaimer that the reports are not proven associations (you could say the same about vaccines by the same reasoning - that they are not proven to prevent disease. - the old "correlation does not equal causation." They only use that one when it's in their favor. I told him the CDC buys and sells $4 billion a year in vaccines, so of course, they'll put a disclaimer in there. Why would they even have VAERS if the reports to it weren't reliable? I should have added that the vaccine court (NVIC) has paid out over $4 billion for injuries including death. He probably would have said those injuries weren't proven, too. As I always say, use common sense and logic when investigating things. Unfortunately, only 1-10% of adverse events even get reported to VAERS. It was becoming obvious that he had done no research on vaccines and was probably relying on the fake news media (including Snopes since this is what started this exchange).
Next, this comment came out of the blue (there had been no prior mention of "herd immunity);" where did this remark come from? "For someone who extols research and critical thinking about vaccines he’s clearly never heard of herd immunity. Anyway. Claims require proof and extreme claims require extreme proof. Or we are free to ignore your claim."
Of course, he is free to ignore whatever claim anyone makes. However, it would be wise to investigate the claim since it may well affect his health and well being. But that is totally up to him.
I posted two links for him about the myth of herd immunity and why it can't possibly work. Here is one of those: Herd Immunity. Just knowing that vaccine protection, when it works, lasts only from 2 - 10 years is enough to tell you most of the adult population in the U.S. is no longer protected from vaccine diseases, thus no "herd immunity."
In his next comment below, he missed the point - Using measles as an example - No One is dying from measles even though less than half the population has any vaccine protection. Vaccines have absolutely nothing to do with any of the unvaccinated not dying, or even getting the disease.
Next, this comment:"His pitch (referring to me as if I was pitching something, which I wasn't - I was trying to introduce them to some factual research and get them to do some research) seems to be that in raw numbers vaccine deaths outnumber disease deaths. Then another one said, "He's ignoring the overwhelming number of people prevented from dying, as Charlie points out."
So I told him vaccines were not responsible for the decrease in deaths from all those diseases and to look at graphs of those diseases from the late 1800s or so to the present and check when the vaccines were introduced. I also mentioned that Scarlet Fever had no vaccine and followed the same slope down in the graph. And attached this graph to make it easy for them to follow things:
It's sad that people don't check actual facts and instead rely on what they hear in the media or from those who profit from vaccines. What those who promote vaccines do it pick specific years for their charts so it appears vaccines made a huge difference, usually a few years before the vaccine came out and after a spike up in cases.
Next, I added the below link to another article about the myth of herd immunity (the link has lots of other information so they could start on their own research. It is part of a 12 part series with links to each of the 12 parts at the bottom of the page. It has links to studies supporting what they say. Of course, anyone is always free to check on what they say (as I did when I began my research. Enjoy! Herd Immunity and More. To this information, the FB guys said the following (unbelievable, I know - it showed me they had no interest in doing the research or of learning the truth):
The first guy said this about the link: "but it's got 12 parts! It has to be authoritative. 12, not 11!" (nothing like a little sarcasm instead of actually doing some research). Then the other guy said, "I think I'll choose to believe history, science and the experts over ad hoc conspiracy." Considering he chose not to learn these things or research history, science and the experts, he illustrates the last line from my favorite quote - "Don't bother me with facts, son. I've already made up my mind."
And one of his final comments: "Sorry, but I find discussions with conspiracy theorists a pointless waste of my time. Have a nice day."
That is what people who don't do the research say. They will put labels on those who did the research calling them conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers, quacks, etc., probably in an attempt to hide their ignorance and lack of research or knowledge regarding vaccines. Then one of them said (now this is funny, or perhaps sad because I had shown him lots of facts), "I can see why you hate facts about vaccines, then."
It's pathetic that those who don't do the research and refuse to read links provided in order to learn something meaningful. I finished with the following.
Not facts (referring to what he said about "facts") if you do the actual research. from INDEPENDENT SOURCES including doctors, scientists, immunologists, virologists, etc. And I supplied the links from my last post (I'm guessing around 200 of them, although I doubt they'll check any. Then said I was done commenting on that thread, and bye bye. There was no point to continue.
It seems some people can't handle the truth, are brainwashed by the media, are making a profit from vaccines, don't want to take the time to learn the truth, or ? Maybe someone else will find some of the links useful and the pro-choice pro-freedom people (isn't that what the U.S. is supposed to be?) will gain another knowledgeable person. If someone learns the dangers of vaccines and it saves even one person, it will have been worth it.
If some of you wonder why I bother with this - seeing and reading about the countless lives destroyed or ended (mostly children) because of vaccines, and all the lies told, I can't sit by and do nothing. The past 30 years I have spent my life helping others with their health. As long as I can I will continue to share what I have learned through research and share that knowledge. Some people, like those above, will doubtfully ever change for whatever reason. Or perhaps they will when a catastrophic vaccine reaction happens to them or someone they know. That's sad. With all the above said, I don't want anyone to listen to me - I want everyone to do the research from (and this is IMPORTANT!!!) Independent Sources as I have done.
So far, I've only researched vaccines related to people. Many years ago when I was growing up, I had dogs as did many of the people I knew. None of the dogs ever got cancer. Now I know of several dogs with, or that have died from, cancer. I started wondering why. Unlike they do with autism, they can't say that they never noticed it before (which isn't true about autism either). What changed is that they are now giving dogs a lot more vaccines. If you're a dog owner, please do yourself a favor and read this article. It may save you money and save your dog, too. I'm wondering - if the vaccines are the cause of the dogs cancers, what's going to happen to all the people who have had their 70+ vaccines as they grow older? Remember, you can't unvaccinate.
In an upcoming blog, I'll be sharing some more links about vaccines and autism rates and mortality, comparing the number of vaccines in several countries and their outcomes.
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